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PROTRACK » GENERAL » SAAL - Nippy's Loxton Gift Carnival on Saturday 22nd February 2014 - entry lists with handicaps

SAAL - Nippy's Loxton Gift Carnival on Saturday 22nd February 2014 - entry lists with handicaps

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ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Hey Over35er,

Yes it good to see some backmarkers up there, but who decides which ones get the boost, why don't they all get the boost?

And Loxton is a quick track with low winds, favouring the front markers who get caught more easily at slower tracks.

As I said above, the results (here on ProTrack) indicate that Andrew Buttery ran third in the final off 28m in the over35s 300m, rather than the 30m mark published.

Maybe another 2m would have put Andrew very close to the win.

So it seems maybe the handicapper adjusted things ...

Can anyone advise as to what mark S Jurado ran off in the actual race (published mark was 24m)?

Can anyone advise as to what mark L Peake ran off in the actual race (published mark was 66m)?


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star

Perhaps you can ask L Peake at training tonight and then you can let us all know tomorrow.

Im still trying to work out ,how juniors can have such inflated marks.
Bearing in mind that juniors can improve so quickly and they havent been running with the league very long how can they get out to marks such as those seen on the weekend.

If I ever find out how its done Stokesy I will let you know so you can apply the same method. Twisted Evil 


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
hey Whispers, I followed your advice and asked a few people ... the story (which is subject to transmission errors of course) ...

Lyn Peake ran off 72 rather than the 66 published ...

Alex Jefferies ran off 46 rather than the 40 published ...

no other info ... so
if anyone can advise what mark S Jurado ran off in the actual race (published mark was 24m)?


Stokesy you are making yourself look like a fool.
Yes Salvador jurado started off 24. Which was more than justified from his previous results 300 and under.
Yes he made the final but he was completely irrelevant. Never even looked like winning. 

Unlike your stablemate who by the looks of it you didn't show much faith in. 
It looked like a well handicapped race with Thompson doing some good research into it. 
So well done!


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Hey C Judd thanks for that info re Salvador Jurado's mark on the day.

As for your personal comments directed at me, maybe I look like a fool to you now, but that implies that at other times I have looked otherwise, so thanks for that compliment.

When I run at SANTOS Stadium tomorrow night with the SA Masters mob, I will get home and look at the web and there will be the the results, just an hour or two after the event.

How do you feel about the SAAL and results not being published for months and years after the event?


Completely different argument
I don't have the knowledge required to comment about information systems/ time needed to implement them etc

But I do know just by observing at race meetings I tend to get all the information I need.


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Same argument.

If the Loxton results were published in full and in a timely manner, then I would not have been asking here for the info re actual marks on the day.

Information is power.

Secrecy (even if it is accidental) seems suspicious.

So the few who "observe" get the knowledge and the power, while the athletes and the rest of us have no right to know what happened?
Why do the actual on the day handicaps and results have to be secret?
Why do the handicappers decisions and reasons have to be secret?

Is a silly and foolish way to operate, I reckon.

Best wishes and see you at Flagstaff.


I think the problem Stokesy is a couple of things happened from one year to the next. Duncan Tippins not competing meant the 10m lift everyone I assume got, now gets taken back, we have guys like David Miller, Daniel Flesfadar and Michael Cassidy winning a few races each this season which make it clear why they have been hit harder.

As you point out, the problem is some got the full 10m hit while others got lifts. I understand its based on an ideological finish time which was last year too quick. In an ideal world we would all have a better understanding from the league why one like myself has the 10m hit and others like Sal and Buttery didnt. Even with Daniels success this year he technically has only had a 1m hit, with Buttery technically getting 12m lift.

Some will say, deal with what you get and get over it or on with it, which I think is a bit old school. Its like cricket these days the players want to know why they where given out and question it using referrals and multiple replays, old school ways would say the ump's decision is final and respect it. Thats not to say we dont respect the handicappers and the tough job they do

I think we deserve a little more transparency and move into today's world. I would like to see the publication on the SAAL and pro-track websites, well in advance, the schedule of events and handicaps and give reason, where necessary, as to why the changes have been made. We dont all have the time to see who won what, when they won it and if or if not by how much. I'm sure there is a perfectly good explanation as to why Buttery moved up 2m for Loxton from last year, I just cant find it?

What the SAAL needs is a volunteer, someone willing to give up some of their time each week or fortnight to enter this information for publication on the SAAL website. Someone needs to put their hand up or nothing will change.

Appoligies to those named to make the point.


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
From what Im hearing ,the actions of stewards last weekend dont follow the right protocol of the Rules of Racing.


17.1 Overtaking

An athlete overtaking another athlete must always pass him/her on the outside (unless the person they are passing has retired from the track or is clearly competing wide) and must be two clear metres ahead before taking ground in front of his/her opponent. The Stewards may fine and/or disqualify an athlete who does not comply with this Rule.

17.2 Jostling, Wilfully Obstructing

Any athlete jostling or running across or wilfully obstructing so as to impede another’s progress may, at the discretion of the Stewards, be disqualified, fined and/or suspended.

17.3 Subsequent Start or Re-run

The Chief Steward may allow any athlete who has been interfered with to start in a subsequent heat or order the race to be re-run with or without the offending athlete or athletes.

1/ The rules of racing only allow an interefered runner to be allowed to start in a subsequent heat NOT FINAL,JTurner should not have been allowed to run.

2 Obviously the interefence was deemed wilful enough to impede J Turner but havent heard of any penalty to the culprit ,did he get one.Recently in Vic a runner was disquailified for similer interference. Rules of racing in SA stipulate that the alleged runner MAY be suspended,fined or disquaulified.Did the runner receive any of these.If not why not as the stewards have obviously deemed the interfence serious enough to promote J T to the final.
Was there any video footage of the incident.


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Whispers, I am hearing that the offending runner (Buttery) was allowed to run in the final, after finishing first in the heat.

Also that the runner impeded (J Turner) finished 3rd in the heat (first two runners only were to qualify for the final).

So rather than disqualify Buttery and promote Turner to second (and Jurado to first) in the heat, three runners from that heat ran in the final.

That is what I am hearing.

Last edited by Stokesy on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : heard a Whisper that I had the wrong runner doing the impeding ... thanks W)


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
I think the stewards botched this one up. J T should not have been allowed to run the final unless the winner of the heat was disqualified and J T was promoted to 2nd.
I find it strange that the interference was considered severe enough to hamper JT but not severe enough to have the winner penalised.
Im sure it was a total accident but rules are rules and Buttery should have been hanging up his running shoes for the night.


Not the first time this season that's happened whispers,
Similiar incident in an open 400 at sacred heart if I remember correctly, there was 9 in the final because someone got cut off protested and was aloud to run the final.

Last edited by c.judd on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Changes year to season)

43 this thread has had 4000 views ... on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:30 pm


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
this thread has had 4000 views ...

"all you people - get a life"

Flagstaff next Saturday 8th March ...
just seven sleeps to the big money over45s 400m ...
also the over35s 120m earlier in the evening.

It's Biggsy's home ground, also Cameron White's.
And Biggsy has tasted VAL victory recently.

Howson and Cassidy have both been sashing away this season, Howson in the longer races and Cassidy in the sprints - now the 400m is the meeeting ground for these two form athletes.
Will Hollywood Howson grab another sash?
Killer Cassidy is keen and confident as always.

As ever, the rest of the codgers will be quietly confident, with Sue Turner fresh from Loxton victory over the sash hungry Ron Axford ... and Lyn Peake always aiming to win.

It will be a short drive for the BlueCar next Saturday, so I will be fresh for the 120m which I won a long time ago ... then I am having a go at the 400m ... it's been two years without a sash for Stokesy, two years and a few teddy thrown out of the pram moments plus quite a few with the foot in mouth lucky I wasn't wearing my race spikes at those times ...


ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
Hey Stokesy

David Miller 54.99 today at State Champs, get ready to get a chill when he zooms past you.


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
hey Whispers,

Yes, I agree that David Miller is in awesome form and keeps getting faster ...

and I reckon he is always a chance for the over35s 120m ...

but isn't he too young to be in the big money race, the 0ver45s 400m?


Yeah he's on the right side of 40 as opposed to the wrong side of 45. If he isnt most improved this year I dont know who is. I think the over 35's state champs will be interesting David will come up against Ross Nitschke, it'll be close!


ProTrack A Grader
ProTrack A Grader
Well, it turns out that the codgers' Nationals are on in Hobart this weekend ... usually held at Easter to clash with Stawell, but being held early this year ...

so Cassidy and the Turners and Lyn Peake are all absent from the entries for the big money over45s 400m at Flagstaff on Saturday ...

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