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» Problems in SA
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptyToday at 8:21 pm by getting2old4this

» The 2019 NOOSA GIFT ENTRIES CLOSE TODAY !!
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptyYesterday at 12:37 pm by NoosaGift

» Hastings Results
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptySat Nov 16, 2019 7:46 pm by JH

» Hastings handicaps
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptySat Nov 16, 2019 8:12 am by Boomba

» Hastings Women's Gift
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptyFri Nov 15, 2019 2:39 pm by Laughing stock

» Month of December Handicap penalties
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptyFri Nov 15, 2019 1:50 pm by Laughing stock

» Hastings Gift
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptyThu Nov 14, 2019 11:31 pm by XXL

» Noosa Gift Entries close this coming Monday 18th Nov
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 13, 2019 2:40 pm by NoosaGift

» Kensington handicaps - 2019
SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks) - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 12, 2019 7:22 am by TheFatLady

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PROTRACK » GENERAL » SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks)

SAAL - First meet in four weeks at Sacred Heart (now 2 weeks)

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youngy

youngy
Admin
Admin
Ribera wrote:The Gross example looks like the definition of madness. Pulled the same as the Bay Gift winner.
He should receive a heavy penalty in all  O/35 races only.
Any gift penalty should be zero or at a stretch maybe tied back to prizemoney won. Treated like a small gift penalty.
Also his O35 mark may have been over inflated and had no parity to his Gift mark.

i understand the SAAL's thinking regarding big race wins, but in this example they've got it wrong.
Please tell me the U18 Bay winner & Restricted Bay winner will not also receive 3.75m pull in Gift mark.

We all accept mistakes so long as they are fixed. Time for the SAAL to review this rule quickly.

This is the thing, we don’t know. The email suggests all 120m winners will receive a category one meet penalty. But this did not apply to another 120m sash recipient from the Bay Sheffield carnival.
Eg: Olivia Hastings.
December 2018 - Wins the Under 18’s Junior Bay Sheffield off 10.50m in 14.44sec.
February 2019 – Wins the Open Women’s 120m at Camden off 9.00m.
March 2019 – Enters Flagstaff Hill Open Women’s, allocated 8.25m. Scratched.
March 2019 – Runs unplaced in her Women's Open heat at Fleurieu off 8.25m.
October 2019 – Runs 3rd off 12.75m at Sacred Heart.

Both Hastings (U/18) and Gross (O/35) won an age restricted 120m race at the Bay. Hastings goes up 4.50m and Gross went back 3.75m.


_________________
"Let's Go While We're Young"

Mex

Mex
Moderator
Moderator
Developing a handicapping system and implementing it without trial has caused some issues. The communication has been vague at best. They would have been better off advising all athletes how the system works and trial it for the season. Let's use the example of Gross, and thank you David for the post, this is crazy. Winning an over 35 race has wiped him out of the gift races. I heard he won an egg an spoon race at the local fete and that is really what happened to his handicap. I do not think you can penalise an athlete who has won before a new system is in place. He should have been pulled in the over 35 race only.

I am also baffled why the SAAL did not use the VAL system. We have talked at length about some tweaks but I would prefer that than what has been presented so far. Instead of competing against each other why did SAAL not work with the VAL. We have also talked about a national handicap system, I hope it is not what is on offer in SAAL.

Lucky the VAL has a race most weekends. Maryborough and Burnie may have their numbers increase this year.

airtight

airtight
Mex is on the ball. My mail is VAL were never consulted. And from what I've heard nor were handicappers from other states or some handicappers in SA. New SA committee have developed this independently. They're banking on the new system being the greatest advance in technology since putting man on the moon. Laughing
results look like first attempt didn't get off the ground. Some rejigging needed before next launch attempt.

Downesy


Not an ideal scenario for those looking toward a national handicapping system.

getting2old4this


Gross should never have been given a penalty on his open mark for winning a Vets race.
Going by the leagues new system it tables (table 4) what the penalties are based on Categories which are based on prize money. The Bay Shef 120m is a CAT 1 but the 120m over 35's is a CAT 4, the prize money for a win was around $500. They cant apply a CAT 1 penalty on a CAT 4 race?
An example of how the league is getting its words mixed up is in the MT Gambier meet saying its a CAT 2 meet, yet the table of penalties suggests its not the meet that is categorised its based on prize money.
They need to clarify if the table they published continually about the new "system" has penalties based on the meet prize money or the race prize money. Its a fundamental basic component of its system that is not being communicated very well at all.
A CAT 4 race with a high prize mandatory/discretionary penalty for a 120m is 1.2M not 2.5, next will be how long the penalty applies for, a CAT 4 penalty applies for 4 carnivals not 4 races. It also outlines the penalty % you get back 25% per carnival, I cant see where Grossy has got any of this back yet??
The table in question is on the team app under Essential Docs under new SAAL handicapping and stewarding model.
This should be addressed by the league but the response David has got suggests there are errors in how this system operates and how it is interpreted and how it is yet to be fully understood by those in a position that should understand it.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to comment.

racingmania


Handicapper’s son wins 5 grand at Loxton off 7.25. 2 runs and he’s on 7.5. 0.25 more than Loxton Mark? Thats impossible under the rules. Should take 12 meets to get the mRk back.
Gross won $500 in the vets at Bay and gets pulled 3.5. So far he’s got 1.5 back. How has the system got Gross and Hagicostas with 100pb of 10.86 off 7.75?

TheFatLady


I'm just warming up on this topic "Handicapping system" and would like to draw everyone's attention to these 4 points for careful consideration:

1. Increase Transparency of both Handicapping and Stewarding

2. Increase Accountability of all SAAL stakeholders

3. Increased Integrity of the SAAL

4. Assist with efficiencies through automating the Handicapping and Stewarding process

Based on the handicaps so far, the time of which the SAAL releases handicaps for review & appeal, albeit pay $50 is more a deterant (as won't get a clear answer, as it will be convoluted as per Gross email) & the notion that athletes will be DQ'd for running in the "red" based upon being outside 2 standard deviations Cat1-3 races. One can look at the model right now and say...

Do not run, hang your spikes up, train hard, race interstate or at local amatuer track... At least until they fix it (highly unlikely as they think handicapping is a simple push of a button process, when it is clearly not).

Boycott the SAAL right now after what you will see this weekend at Kensington.

The sponsorship money unfortunately will dry up. It is one man raising all the funds...an ex footballer, 2 time premiership player with all of his connections. Once he decides, I'm done with this or his daughter doesn't get her Bay Sash, where do you think the money will go??

The SAAL committee only has a 1-2 of people who are genuine about the sport, unbiased. The rest are either too new or naive in fact to know any different & are "yes men" to the Stallan/Aston regime & the last group have an agenda.

Blind Freddy can see if you are part of the "yes men" & have an agenda for personal gain in line with receiving massive lofts for minimal effort, you will be looked after. Ex President BG is still very much involved, influencing & sniping people behind their backs based upon their performances. If you are not part of the "in crowd" you are therefore unfortunately only making a donation each carnival.
#SAALLOTTO #IVOTEDLIPTAK

Laughing stock


Hagicostas

Loxton 2019 2nd off 6.60m
Fleurieu Milk 2nd off 6.0m

Kensington this week 7.75m

Seems a huge lift for a teenager

getting2old4this


Great summary "TheFatLady".
Secret meetings, agendas, a dictatorship approach by Stalin, terrible handicap system, told its our duty to support the league by Pittman etc. etc.
Sorry but something needs to change and change quickly.
The only way to sort this mess out is to carry out a vote of no confidence in the league.
How do we do this? How do we do this without losing sponsors? Who fills the roles if the vote would be successful?
What is needed is a group of people that are impartial, not easily influenced, listens to the members/athletes/coaches, passionate and experienced, and cans this useless handicap "system" immediately.

Perhaps if I could suggest the first thing we might all need to establish and that is what support there is.

This weekend maybe too late, but what if on Sunday all those that support the current format and committee, congregate at the grand stand side of Kensington Oval as per usual.

For all of those that want an immediate change either with the committee and/or the handicap "system" meet on Sunday at the Eastern side of Kensington Oval.

I think if we can establish numbers of athletes, coaches etc. that hopefully shows an overwhelming support for change we can then work on how.

Thoughts?

#IVOTEDLIPTAK

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