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PROTRACK » GENERAL » Problems in SA

Problems in SA

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31Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:19 am

EyeSeaAll


After a small amount of research outside of the SAAL results, it appears Benjamin Larsson did compete with ASA (Interclub weeks 1 - 19/10/19) and he ran a 100m in 12.30 seconds.

Regardless of the above result. The athlete has competed twice with SAAL and once with a different affiliation and has essentially been gifted a 120m open final off 16.75m.

I agree with you getting2old4this - you need to 'earn your stripes' so to speak, there are athletes who have been running for many years and still yet to win a sash let alone appear in open finals.

32Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:19 pm

Laughing stock



2 HOURS AGO
FLINDERS NOMS WILL CLOSE AT 9PM TONIGHT (& Kens...

14 Nov | By Josh Orken

So dont go holding your breath for the handicaps just yet.
Got this off the APP just now.

33Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:43 pm

Ned_Kelly


Laughing stock wrote:
2 HOURS AGO
FLINDERS NOMS WILL CLOSE AT 9PM TONIGHT (& Kens...

14 Nov | By Josh Orken

So dont go holding your breath for the handicaps just yet.
Got this off the APP just now.

It looks like this was just an update to a previous article that has created a notification that makes it look new.
However, it is quite surprising that there is no handicaps available as yet; constantly just on time.

Info seems to be very delayed in general, i wouldnt mind seeing some about Bay...

34Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:13 pm

getting2old4this


When we are all waiting on handicaps and get a track set-up roster!!!

With such a great "system" I cant fathom why it takes so long to provide handicaps, I mean its not like they're going to get it right anyway.

I assume by sending them out at around 2pm Friday most wont be in a position to look at them straight away and therefore wont be able to send or waste $50 asking why the handicaps wrong.

I heard at Port Adelaide an athlete told the stewards she sent an email regarding her changed handicap and was told sorry didnt have time to forward it onto Tim, asking for her money back she was told no cant do that. Visibly upset she got no sympathy from office staff other than from Phil Dawes.

If the "system" has an allowance for athletes to question their marks (albeit a $50 rip-off) they need to give athletes enough time to be able to make an enquiry.

35Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:52 pm

racingmania


I don't get how this is an improved service -
1. handicaps published very last moment on Friday arvo. 3 days later than before.
2. can't contact the office to request a review like before.
3. have to pay $50 to get explanation of huge change that makes no sense.
4. no programs to check heat time, progress to semi/final or record results.
5. don't know prize money break up.
6. athletes not getting cash for small prizes won on day of meet.
7. only one handicapper instead of 3 means no person for specific group.

36Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:33 pm

ToM

ToM
ProTrack Star
ProTrack Star
getting2old4this wrote:
I heard at Port Adelaide an athlete told the stewards she sent an email regarding her changed handicap and was told sorry didnt have time to forward it onto Tim, asking for her money back she was told no cant do that. Visibly upset she got no sympathy from office staff other than from Phil Dawes.

If this story is correct and the athlete was in fact denied a refund for what was a time-specific service,

i.e. the league can’t hold on to her money and just provide an answer regarding her next handicap,

then the league is likely violating Australian Consumer Law and this athlete can make a complaint to the SA Gov Consumer and Business Services by visiting https://forms.sa.gov.au/#/form/5780e4f27c79ff278c3875af/app/5dcd23ad4d433138b0c144ad

37Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:53 pm

EyeSeaAll


The fact the handicaps have not been released yet for the upcoming Flinders carnival is absolutely abysmal.

No wonder we aren't able to challenge our own handicaps. It is 44 hours until the race and they STILL have not been released.

So much for the new 'System' generator the handicaps on a timely basis.

38Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:06 pm

getting2old4this


Hmm 4pm and still nothing??? Is the Flinders meet still on?

39Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:14 pm

Laughing stock


Bit like waiting for a train at Clare train station, for those that dont know , trains stopped running to Clare years ago.

40Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:21 pm

TheFatLady


I've just walked the Flinders track, it is freshly mowed, and has been marked for 70m and lane 1 is in desperate need of some TLC.. Those dizzy boys been carving it up!

It should get the typical "Standard" rating by the stewards, but don't expect too much. Only bonus is it is hard as a rock.. Let hope the little Athletes don't hurt themselves on it tonight.

Handicaps are out, right on 530pm AEDT.

Let me now warm up my vocal chords, as we review the marks..

41Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:34 pm

racingmania


Marks at Flinders are improvement on Kensington not so many outrageous as last week but still many hard to work out. Lifts in 70m for some, not for others who were slower. Lacks Transparency.

42Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:24 am

Laughing stock


prestigeous two mile event has always had a limit of 600m.
It was written on the nomination 600m limit.
Bourke needs to run off 600m , not 625

43Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:47 pm

StrangerThings


So my observation over the last few running meets which seems to be similar to a few others on here are that there seems to be a real issue with this new computer system, in relation to junior or novice runners entering the open races and be given inflated marks for their abilities and hence are then running under net time, which therefore is essentially handicapping the majority of the senior runner out of the event, besides a few who are in pb form or who have improved a lot over the winter.

Birdman comment that we have been having some close finals, I’m not sure if you are just talking about the women’s but I know a lot of the distance open races haven’t been close and the heats of the open sprints haven’t been close due majority senior runners on appropriate marks but with there being an influx of junior/novice runner on these inflated marks.
If you were speak to any of the senior runners and ask any of them, if they have ever ran under net time for a race, I bet majority will say never. Why is this season are majority of races been run under net time.... it’s because something is wrong with the computer System!

The league needs to put them self in the spikes of a senior athlete. Imagine turning up to particular event and have been running for 8years plus and never had won a particular distance or not won a race in particular distance for 7 years. You line up for your event and have several junior/novice runners start in front of you and run under net time and win. (This is something that I have never seen happened in my racing until this year!)

The league states to be patient as it take a few meets to sort out for them to collect more data. So senior athletes are still meant to pay their money to enter events but handicapped out of it due them not having enough data for these new athletes. This problem we’ll never be resolved as you are always going to have new runners enter the open. My solution is that they handicap the junior/novice runners entering the open event manually until they do have enough data.

At the moment it seem like we are all on the SAAL aeroplane which is on a autopilot computer with no human pilots involved to see if there are any mistakes. If there was still a handicapper involved overseeing this, I don’t think we would be having this many issues. I’m not sure if the league knows this about computers but they actually don’t have eyes, it can’t actually see that the second place novice runner in 120 open at Kensington was an athlete who can actually run and who is physically very strong and you could have given him a mark slightly above the novice mark and he would have still be in the mix, but instead for his first 120m run he is given the ridiculous make of 16.45! If the handicap had one look at him before he even ran, there is no way he would have ever been given a mark like that.

Is anyone with league actually checking the marks that the computer system is spitting out..... I query this as I noticed in the 300m all comers race you had a novice runner off 22 who was a middle age women and then you had a national 400m runner off 20. Interesting note is the novice runner off 22 time isn’t even recorded on the SAAL results... why is that... has it been deleted....
My concern leading up to this weekend, is that we have a 200m event which only really occurs maybe once or twice a year. If we are relying on this new computer system, is it going to have enough data for these junior/novice runners to give them a mark that’s appropriate and competitive but not inflated that they run under net time..... I guess we will have to watch this space!



Last edited by StrangerThings on Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

44Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:42 pm

Laughing stock


Really well spoken Strangerthings, Im sure the Computer overheats when it comes to distance events especially.
Theres an athlete tomorrow handicapped between 116m and 118m in the Open 800m who must surely think its his birthday , runs and wins in net time or puts his spikes away until the Bay like a 120m female runner has done and rolls up down to the Bay and say Merry Christmas.

45Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:02 pm

StrangerThings


Hi can anyone explain to me why last seasons Loxton winner Jacob Aston 7.25m is now off 7.5m and last season bay 550m winner J Evans 24m is now off 26. In over I don’t know 125 years of pro runner has there ever been an athlete who wins a major race and come back the next season off a greater mark from when they won it....? Has this ever happened in Victoria?

I don’t mean any disrespect to these athletes, I know from watching Evans over the years he is an amazing runner who gives it he’s all. It’s just very bizarre that the computer is spitting out these marks and no one is questioning it or checking it!

46Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:07 pm

Giddyup


Laughing Stock is right about RP in the Women's re Bay.

47Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:19 pm

getting2old4this


I find the league a bit patronising in that we wait and wait and wait for the handicaps to come through and finally at 5:30 pm Friday, hooray at last, then get reminded at 4pm Saturday to make sure we accept for our races as a MATTER OF URGENCY!
I know its just a friendly reminder but still, its not the point. Get the bloody handicaps out earlier and allow athletes to accept with a little more time.
I'm leaving it to last minute to not accept as a protest and not run this weekend!
See you at the Bay....maybe?

Ohh and I have on good authority a coach that has spoken to a person that is very educated on the "system" and how it functions that even with 5 years of data entered it still wont ever be what the league expects or tells us it will be.

48Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:51 pm

youngy

youngy
Admin
Admin
StrangerThings wrote:Hi can anyone explain to me why last seasons Loxton winner Jacob Aston 7.25m is now off 7.5m and last season bay 550m winner J Evans 24m is now off 26. In over I don’t know 125 years of pro runner has there ever been an athlete who wins a major race and come back the next season off a greater mark from when they won it....? Has this ever happened in Victoria?

I don’t mean any disrespect to these athletes,  I know from watching Evans over the years he is an amazing runner who gives it he’s all. It’s just very bizarre that the computer is spitting out these marks and no one is questioning it or checking it!  

Fair point ST. I too was bewildered by the Evans 550 mark, but when I saw there were two other Bay Sheff 550 finalists with lifts of 16 and 18 respectively, I assumed it was in line with those. However there's others who were not lifted and seem inconsistent. So I can't work it out.


_________________
"Let's Go While We're Young"

49Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:32 am

TheFatLady


Looking over the 70m handicaps for today, it is odd that some have been lifted & others have not.

We need to know what results the "system" uses to determine ones handicap: The 1 year, 3 year & Personal Bests. We don't need to see behind the scenes. If you compare C.Watkins handicap in the 300m from last week to his 200m this week. This week seems fair & reasonable. Last week didn't make sense. Looks like he got a lift in the 70m.

From the looks on the SAAL Facebook page there appears to some significant work gone into the start of the 70m.

Hats off to those 2 individuals (a coach & a SAAL committee member) for putting in the work for the benefit of athletes & officials. Looks similar to Bay Sheff day!
I eagerly await the results, as I warm up my vocals..

50Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:42 pm

getting2old4this


Oldies 200, 15m lift and bang she says I'll take that! MPS last year .153 this year .146 for a 3.6 second improvement in a 200! This is the problem with the "system", a handicapper knows and sees whats going on, "system" doesnt!
Not the athletes fault for getting the extra 15 (sort off) but you dont just go throwing around lifts like this!
Well played.

51Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:40 pm

racingmania


1st, Congrats to Flinders for putting on the meet and getting the track to a reasonable standard. Handicap grid for 70 was great idea.
Think I aw some inconsistent runs at Flinders. same stable involved in most of them.
Standard and quality in mens 200 was disappointing. Three on dais was a vet and 2 under 18s. Senior guys starting to drop off?
70s were close.
womens 200 winner Phillis unlucky not to double, beat by 1/1000. Happy to see Orman win though, hasnt won a lot.

52Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:03 am

Laughing stock


Yep Racingmania, the way I see it , the present system certainly favours select age groups.
So any athlete in the 15 -18 year old range or Over 35 get yourself to the track and your chances of picking up a sash are REAL.

53Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:47 am

Guest

Anonymous
Guest
Interesting, when you work out your handicap, based on 'the systems' proposed methods. Vets definitely get a bit more, then the juniors. Open athletes are worse off.

54Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:43 pm

getting2old4this


Another comment in relation to the spill we get from the league when it comes to nomination numbers. The message sent out on the app was the nominations for Flinders are up 25% etc.....
The figures I found were, last years nominations 378, this year 389 up 3%
Competing athletes last year were 253, this year 295 up 17%
I guess the plus is that of those nominated and actually competed increased by 8% and noms were up albeit by 3%
Lets not be fooled by hype, there is no 25% increase!
Lets not be fooled that the "system" is being embraced!

55Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:04 pm

ScrambledLegs

ScrambledLegs
It appears Flinders was mainly a B grade field, with some prominent stables missing from competition. How long until we no longer have enough competitors to make up quality heats? Races will soon become straight finals filled with the two favoured age categories ….

56Problems in SA - Page 2 Empty Re: Problems in SA on Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:21 pm

getting2old4this


Laughing stock wrote:Yep Racingmania, the way I see it , the present system certainly favours select age groups.
So any athlete in the 15 -18 year old range or Over 35 get yourself to the track and your chances of picking up a sash are REAL.

The league is an historical competition, an institution which has been overhauled with what seems like very little regard for its history by this "system"

Whats happening is a bit like removing the Historical Adelaide Oval scoreboard and replacing it with a creche with some access ramps for the elderly!

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