PROTRACK

A forum devoted to track events from 60m to the 2 mile. Mainly pro but also news from local, national and international sprint & middle distance competitions.

Log in

I forgot my password



Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Flagstaff Nominations
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyYesterday at 11:19 pm by Laughing stock

» Chris Roberts booted out of judging
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyYesterday at 10:46 pm by Laughing stock

» Bay Sheffield Results
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 21, 2020 4:23 pm by Steve Buscemi

» Castlemaine Gift
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyFri Feb 21, 2020 1:30 pm by frog Man

» Castlemaine Women's 400m
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 20, 2020 2:21 pm by Castlemaine jim

» Stawell Gift in Crisis - Luke's Resignation letter to Stawell Athletic Club
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 am by AussiePro

» Castlemaine Gift women's
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyThu Feb 20, 2020 10:49 am by DDog

» Keilor Gift
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyWed Feb 19, 2020 6:38 pm by Juice

» Race Report Ballarat?
Handicapping Systems - Page 5 EmptyWed Feb 19, 2020 7:27 am by rainsitpours

February 2020
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
     12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
242526272829 

Calendar Calendar


You are not connected. Please login or register

PROTRACK » GENERAL » Handicapping Systems

Handicapping Systems

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Go down  Message [Page 5 of 5]

121Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:30 pm

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


Ok.boomer wrote:Cheetah. Who needs terry. Ur all jokes. Think of the money

May come as a bit of a shock to you Boomer but the people who organise the Loxton meeting actually request Terry.

In Terrys absence I hope Lachlan gives a good account of him self this weekend , tough gig for an 18 year old.
Have you ever heard Lachlan call, Boomer

122Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:02 pm

Ok.boomer


Cheetah. U have to progress Stop living in the ol days. Think of the money

123Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


Ok.boomer wrote:Cheetah. U have to progress   Stop living in the ol days. Think of the money

Hey Boomer , I think you need to re read the above post, Hoping an 18 year old will give a good account of himself is hardly living in the ol days.
Obviously you have your head buried so far up your backside that you dont even know this emerging talent.

124Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:33 pm

Ok.boomer


Cheetah cheetah cheets mate u been to funny school. Think ur funny heh.

125Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:18 am

2cents


Big loss to those meets, Terry will be missed!

Goodluck to the young fella

126Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:25 am

getting2old4this

getting2old4this
Ok.boomer wrote:Old fella. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the appeal ¬†committee unconstitutional.

Are you referring to the special meeting request?

And yes think of all the money, fat lot of good its doing when athletes FINALLY get paid prize money 4-6 weeks after they competed.

Sounds like you worked out at Bolivar, shit job, but think of all the money!!!



Last edited by getting2old4this on Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wanted to add FINALLY to emphasise more on how long its taking)

127Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:45 am

TheFatLady


What special meeting request??

*Bay sheffield appeal committee wasn't independent.

**The other issue is using wind adjusted times (or not for some races, eg 2019 Pre Bay off the charts, can't use) but then not displaying them online or results, not transparent. This impacts a runners handicap.

*** A runner wins 2019 Junior Bay Sheffield after 4 starts..

"Come one come all.. Step right up, step right up where everyone wins a prize!!!"

That's right coaches don't train your athletes to run too fast too soon.. Or get faster for a once prestigious event..

No no no.. Do your 3 runs early in the season & then put your cue in the rack.

****13.69 from 7.5m 8.21MPS early 2019 to 12.41 from 8.75 8.96MPS December 2019.
7-8m improvement & none blinks an eye lid.. How's this not another LM scenario this time last year at Camden, I dunno what is.. You've lost me SAAL..

What's happening in the tennis.. I need a stiff drink!

128Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:00 am

Steve Buscemi


TFL ill advise you to not to look at the Camden Nom then!

The death of two great events!! Pretty Sad Sad

129Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:05 am

getting2old4this

getting2old4this
Sigh! I understand there is extensive work and consultation done with handicapping on a system most of us dont like, its not to say the changes arent warranted, but seriously I can barely get my head around all of these continual changes of parameters as it is, let alone another set of them, thats another 7 handicapping parameter changes introduced.
Sigh!

130Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:07 am

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


Can someone please give me a bit of history about Jimmy Latonas running history.
Hellav a nice bloke.
But I have never seen him run before and he bobs up at the Bay and runs off 18.75 in the Restricted .
Hey Birdman you are his Coach or similar so perhaps you can let us all know his results that were submitted and from where or we can only assume of something very sinister

131Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:09 am

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


getting2old4this wrote:Sigh! I understand there is extensive work and consultation done with handicapping on a system most of us dont like, its not to say the changes arent warranted, but seriously I can barely get my head around all of these continual changes of parameters as it is, let alone another set of them, thats another 7 handicapping parameter changes introduced.
Sigh!

DONT PANIC WE WERE TOLD IT WAS 100% READY TO GO AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON.
Its got to get better or we will miss out on all those Grants that are going to make the saal grow and grow and grow

132Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:44 pm

Ok.boomer


Think of the money!!
I can think of at least 10 Melbourne cup horses DQ for running outside the parameters.

133Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:53 pm

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Can someone please give me a bit of history about Jimmy Latonas running history.
Hellav a nice bloke.
But I have never seen him run before and he bobs up at the Bay and runs off 18.75 in the Restricted .
Hey Birdman you are his Coach or similar so perhaps you can let us all know his results that were submitted and from where or we can only assume of something very sinister

Hey Birdy , never known you to be so quiet

134Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:50 pm

Townsville


Ok.boomer wrote:Think of the money!!
I can think of at least 10 Melbourne cup horses DQ for running outside the parameters.

Ok.boomer - The parameters is one thing, the application of the stewarding is another.

You are obviously familiar with the system, the parameters and know the answers so let me offer up the following observations made across this forum that the general pro public (many of who are 30+ year veterans) cannot comprehend.

We all understand the MPS. It is the application of the model that has people confused.

Allow me to share a small handful of examples out of many.

Athlete 1 - improves by 0.294 MPS and has their handicap reduced by 0.75m.
Athlete 2 - improves by 0.325 MPS and attempts are made to reduce their handicap by 0.75m.
Athlete 3 - improves by 0.747 MPS - no stewarding
Athlete 4 - improves by 0.282 MPS - no stewarding
Athlete 5 - improves by 0.412 MPS - no stewarding
Athlete 6 - runs slower by 0.395 MPS - no stewarding
Athlete 7 - runs slower by 0.312 MPS - no stewarding
Athlete 8 - improves by 0.471 MPS - no stewarding

Without any explanations offered it is no wonder this forum is stating the obvious.




135Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:07 am

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Can someone please give me a bit of history about Jimmy Latonas running history.
Hellav a nice bloke.
But I have never seen him run before and he bobs up at the Bay and runs off 18.75 in the Restricted .
Hey Birdman you are his Coach or similar so perhaps you can let us all know his results that were submitted and from where or we can only assume of something very sinister

Hey Birdy , never known you to be so quiet
Okay Birdy , well I will tell everyone what I know.
He ran at Mile End in Nov on a Tartan track with a huge tailwind of plus 1.7 running only 12.53, 7.980 mps, considering tartan track and huge tailwind this would be adjusted way out.
Jimmy then runs 12.67 at Marion 8.05 mps
Birdy you are one hell of a trainer to get that much improvement in an athlete a few weeks.
I know another trainer who did that and got into trouble Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

136Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:15 pm

Ok.boomer


Ungrateful peanuts. Look at what the committee has done for the league. I can’t believe I’m the only person supporting the committee on this forum

137Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:40 pm

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


Ok.boomer wrote:Ungrateful peanuts. Look at what the committee has done for the league. I can’t believe I’m the only person supporting the committee on this forum


Im totally with you Boomer , I cant understand it either but then again I was never that smart.

138Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:43 pm

getting2old4this

getting2old4this
Its Pitiful lol!

139Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:17 pm

Steve Buscemi


If I was the main sponsor of the gift I would be mortified!

Rest in peace SAAL.

140Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:23 pm

2cents


[quote="RUN LIKE A CHEATAH"]
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Can someone please give me a bit of history about Jimmy Latonas running history.
Hellav a nice bloke.
But I have never seen him run before and he bobs up at the Bay and runs off 18.75 in the Restricted .
Hey Birdman you are his Coach or similar so perhaps you can let us all know his results that were submitted and from where or we can only assume of something very sinister

Hey Birdy , never known you to be so quiet
Okay Birdy , well I will tell everyone what I know.
He ran at Mile End in Nov on a Tartan track with a huge tailwind of plus 1.7 running only 12.53, 7.980 mps, considering tartan track and huge tailwind this would be adjusted way out.
Jimmy then runs 12.67 at Marion 8.05 mps
Birdy you are one hell of a trainer to get that much improvement in an athlete a few weeks.
I know another trainer who did that and got into trouble Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

From my understanding he’s a first year runner, so from November to January quite possible to make the improvement.

What are you assuming Cheatah?

141Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:52 am

Townsville


2cents wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Can someone please give me a bit of history about Jimmy Latonas running history.
Hellav a nice bloke.
But I have never seen him run before and he bobs up at the Bay and runs off 18.75 in the Restricted .
Hey Birdman you are his Coach or similar so perhaps you can let us all know his results that were submitted and from where or we can only assume of something very sinister

Hey Birdy , never known you to be so quiet
Okay Birdy , well I will tell everyone what I know.
He ran at Mile End in Nov on a Tartan track with a huge tailwind of plus 1.7 running only 12.53, 7.980 mps, considering tartan track and huge tailwind this would be adjusted way out.
Jimmy then runs 12.67 at Marion 8.05 mps
Birdy you are one hell of a trainer to get that much improvement in an athlete a few weeks.
I know another trainer who did that and got into trouble Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

From my understanding he’s a first year runner, so from November to January quite possible to make the improvement.

What are you assuming Cheatah?


2cents, it's not the assumption, it's the inconsistencies.

Kensington - 7.67MPS
Bay Heat & Semi - 7.96MPS
Bay Final 8.15MPS

An improvement of 0.48MPS at the Bay and no stewarding required, no questions asked.

Two athletes who improved by 0.29MPS & 0.32MPS were targeted at the Bay by the stewards.

Why only these two when there are tens of athletes who improved by more?

It is these inconsistencies with no reporting, clarifying or otherwise that have athletes losing all faith with the system and the committee.


142Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:09 am

Ok.boomer


What an awesome day yesterday. Running was unreal. No one targeted. Wow 😮

143Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:12 pm

Townsville


Ok.boomer wrote:What an awesome day yesterday. Running was unreal. No one targeted. Wow 😮

If you consider 17 athletes competing in the third richest gift in the SAAL, qualifying for a finals berth with times over 13 seconds, a great result then so be it, you're entitled to your opinion.


144Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:15 pm

2cents


Townsville wrote:
2cents wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Can someone please give me a bit of history about Jimmy Latonas running history.
Hellav a nice bloke.
But I have never seen him run before and he bobs up at the Bay and runs off 18.75 in the Restricted .
Hey Birdman you are his Coach or similar so perhaps you can let us all know his results that were submitted and from where or we can only assume of something very sinister

Hey Birdy , never known you to be so quiet
Okay Birdy , well I will tell everyone what I know.
He ran at Mile End in Nov on a Tartan track with a huge tailwind of plus 1.7 running only 12.53, 7.980 mps, considering tartan track and huge tailwind this would be adjusted way out.
Jimmy then runs 12.67 at Marion 8.05 mps
Birdy you are one hell of a trainer to get that much improvement in an athlete a few weeks.
I know another trainer who did that and got into trouble Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

From my understanding he’s a first year runner, so from November to January quite possible to make the improvement.

What are you assuming Cheatah?


2cents, it's not the assumption, it's the inconsistencies.

Kensington - 7.67MPS
Bay Heat & Semi - 7.96MPS
Bay Final 8.15MPS

An improvement of 0.48MPS at the Bay and no stewarding required, no questions asked.

Two athletes who improved by 0.29MPS & 0.32MPS were targeted at the Bay by the stewards.

Why only these two when there are tens of athletes who improved by more?

It is these inconsistencies with no reporting, clarifying or otherwise that have athletes losing all faith with the system and the committee.



I agree completely, the inconsistency is very disappointing!

However, if you’re going to analyse the data you need to be consistent yourself. It is unfair to compare MPS from Kensington to the Bay for one athlete and then Brighton to the Bay for others.
I’m saying that, you have obviously analysed the data more carefully than I. I do not have the time nor do I care to, so good on ya.

It is interesting where the line should be drawn though? You’ve pointed out that some athletes have improved more than your lad and it is unfortunate that your athlete got the worst of the officiating but do you think his improvement was acceptable?

145Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:29 pm

Townsville


2cents wrote:
Townsville wrote:
2cents wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:
RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Can someone please give me a bit of history about Jimmy Latonas running history.
Hellav a nice bloke.
But I have never seen him run before and he bobs up at the Bay and runs off 18.75 in the Restricted .
Hey Birdman you are his Coach or similar so perhaps you can let us all know his results that were submitted and from where or we can only assume of something very sinister

Hey Birdy , never known you to be so quiet
Okay Birdy , well I will tell everyone what I know.
He ran at Mile End in Nov on a Tartan track with a huge tailwind of plus 1.7 running only 12.53, 7.980 mps, considering tartan track and huge tailwind this would be adjusted way out.
Jimmy then runs 12.67 at Marion 8.05 mps
Birdy you are one hell of a trainer to get that much improvement in an athlete a few weeks.
I know another trainer who did that and got into trouble Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

From my understanding he’s a first year runner, so from November to January quite possible to make the improvement.

What are you assuming Cheatah?


2cents, it's not the assumption, it's the inconsistencies.

Kensington - 7.67MPS
Bay Heat & Semi - 7.96MPS
Bay Final 8.15MPS

An improvement of 0.48MPS at the Bay and no stewarding required, no questions asked.

Two athletes who improved by 0.29MPS & 0.32MPS were targeted at the Bay by the stewards.

Why only these two when there are tens of athletes who improved by more?

It is these inconsistencies with no reporting, clarifying or otherwise that have athletes losing all faith with the system and the committee.



I agree completely, the inconsistency is very disappointing!

However, if you’re going to analyse the data you need to be consistent yourself. It is unfair to compare MPS from Kensington to the Bay for one athlete and then Brighton to the Bay for others.
I’m saying that, you have obviously analysed the data more carefully than I. I do not have the time nor do I care to, so good on ya.

It is interesting where the line should be drawn though? You’ve pointed out that some athletes have improved more than your lad and it is unfortunate that your athlete got the worst of the officiating but do you think his improvement was acceptable?


Yes I do think the improvement was acceptable.

Compare all the athletes performances over the past five years from Brighton to the Bay and you will see that an improvement of 0.4 between Brighton and the Bay is perfectly reasonable.

Race 5 at Brighton v Race 1 at the Bay for starters

I won't name names but a direct Bay to Brighton comparison reveals 5 athletes improved by 0.4 or greater from Brighton to the Bay.

Either re-handicap them all or none but if you're interpretation of the stewarding model indicates only one needs re-handicapping - your interpretation is wrong.

and yes, I have analysed this in detail and will continue to do so until someone gives me answers.

146Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:35 pm

2cents


No need to name names, I, along with most others, agree with you

147Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:14 pm

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH


Push it all the way Towny , no way should only one athlete be rehandicap.
What doesnt sit very well with me is that there was talk going around MONTHS beforehand of the BLOODBATH which was going to happen at the BAY, and the Bookie was prewarned as well.
PREMEDITATION.

148Handicapping Systems - Page 5 Empty Re: Handicapping Systems on Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:28 pm

Townsville


RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Push it all the way Towny , no way should only one athlete be rehandicap.
What doesnt sit very well with me is that there was talk going around MONTHS beforehand of the BLOODBATH which was going to happen at the BAY, and the Bookie was prewarned as well.
PREMEDITATION.

If that is in fact the case, it doesn't look good that the two athletes who were the subject of a potential re-handicapping under the stewarding model were in fact the two athletes who were heavily backed in to win or place ...

Sponsored content


Back to top  Message [Page 5 of 5]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum